Over the past 40 years, proposals to end the Arab-Israeli conflict have generally specified the following two pre-conditions.
1. The Islamic nations must recognize Israel’s right to exist in peace in the region.
2. Israel must return the Gaza and West Bank areas.
These pre-conditions appear to conflict with the following aspects of Islamic and Jewish religious traditions.
1. Mohammed’s final command that only one religion must occupy the Arabian Peninsula; therefore, the Jews must leave.
2. Moses’ final command that the Israelites must occupy the Promised land, which includes Gaza and the West Bank; therefore, the Arabs must leave.
Previous proposals have largely ignored these religious traditions and have sought to apply political solutions to the symptoms of these religious issues. Islamic and Jewish political leaders are well aware that accepting their pre-condition would violate critical aspects of their respective religious traditions. Therefore, both sides appear to have negotiated in bad-faith in order to avoid the fatal consequences of making unpopular decisions.
Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin are reported to have been assassinated, because they were the first national leaders to formally accept the pre-conditions. Until the religious issues are resolved, the Jewish and Islamic political leaders are essentially being forced to negotiate a compromise solution in bad-faith, because they are well aware that their respective populations will never agree to the negotiated terms.
Having studied the Arab-Israeli conflict over the past 30 years, I have found a workable solution to the conflict that resolves the religious issues and proposes an equitable political solution. Essentially, there is compelling evidence to show that Mohammed never intended that the Jews to be driven out of Israel, and that God never intended that the Arabs be driven out of Israel. The details are in the book: Solving the Arab-Israeli Conflict which is available on Amazon.com linked here.
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Link to: Discussion on Brothers Kept Apart
Weighed in the Balance 
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Unfortunately, history has added another hurt that needs addressing: Israel has to give up her permanent Holocaust Denial of 1948, and its unjustified claim of victim monopoly in the other holocaust.
When the Arabs decide to wage war against Israel for land,they take a risk that if they will be defeated,Israel may get the land they conquered from them.Knowing also that if the Arabs will win the war,they as well take the land they conquered from Israel. Unfortunely ,Arabs lost the war.And Israel can get the land they conquered and Israel must include the conquered as part of Israel.
Hi Estipona:
You have made an interesting point. Had the Arabs won, they would have likely have displaced the Jews in a similar manner that the Jews were forced from the Arabian Peninsula. However, Israel’s victory over Egypt did not prevent Israel from returning the Sinai Peninsula. The Sinai region had little religious significance. Gaza and West Bank do have religious significance. Therefore, any proposed solution must address this religious problem if it is to have any hope of success.
Regards,
Grenville
They key in my opinion is the lack of democracy in the Arab countries. If the Arabs are led by real people representation, then the Arab states will discuss and vote on issues regarding Israel. But now, in the Arab countries, the Arab tyrants, be it kings, presidents, or Sheikhs, are all benefiting from the tension to justify their existence. We need to establish governments in the Arab world that is put by the people, and then these countries will behave as masses and not as individual dictators that dictate whatever their mood feels like.
An example, look at Jordan and Egypt, these are governed by illegitimate dictated regimes. The so called peace between these countries and Israel is fake and is implemented only on paper, but it is not real on the streets. This is why if you ask anyone in Egypt or in Jordan, they will deny that they have peace with Israel. In Jordan for instance, the king forced the agreement on the people using a falsely elected parliament. So what you have is peace between a regime and the people of Israel, and not a peace between the Arab people and the Israeli people.
The other problem is that in these Arab dictated regimes, Islamists and right wing are outlawed, and prosecuted, while in Israel they are a part of the democratic system. This creates the religious out latches that we see every so often. If the Arab countries have democracy, Islamist will be on the floor of the senate and will not resort to clandestine, and probably will always be a minority.
My advice to Israelis, make peace with people and not with regimes and businessmen.
Hi Mohamed:
While a democratically elected leadership should improve the governance in the Middle-East, it is unlikely to resolve the underlying religious problems. No amount of democracy can get Muslims to disbelieve Mohammed’s final command that the Peninsula must become Islamic. Therefore, Arab leaders are forced to negotiate with Israel in bad-faith while they patiently wait to execute Mohammed’s final command.
A religious solution is required, which can release the political leaders to negotiate an agreement in good faith. A solution that is likely to be acceptable to Islamic Sheikhs, Jewish Rabbis, and Christian Priests, is provided in “Solving the Arab-Israeli Conflict”, part of which can be read on Amazon.com.
Regards.
Grenville
In real sense,Arabs and Israel are blood brothers.They all came from the loins of Abraham.Because of religious rivalry and envy,these brothers are killing each other.In fact all the rituals of Muslim are taken from Jews rituals.From washing to worship,also the blood sacrifice of lambs and goats after Haj,are taken from Jews.There will be a new peace agreement coming ,but that peace agreement will last only for seven years.
Hi Estipona:
Your description of events is generally supported by historical record.
1. Both Jews and Arabs are descendents of Abraham.
2. During the time of Mohammed, the Arabs were angry that the Jews did not receive Mohammed as a prophet, and the Jews were angry that they were expelled from the Arabian Peninsula and had their property confiscated.
3. The Qur’an teaches that God first chose the descendents of Isaac (Jews), but since the Jews rejected God, He chose the Christians, but since they started teaching error, God then chose the descendents of Ishmael (Arabs). Therefore, the Arabs were not envious of the Jews, but pitied them, and since Muslims acknowledge the God of the Jews as the one and only God, then many of their traditions would be similar.
4. The Arabs are befuddled that God did not help them carry out Mohammed’s final command, but are patiently awaiting the opportunity to do so.
5. The Jews are patiently and incrementally following Moses’ command of occupying the Biblical boundaries of Israel, and will likely contuinue to do so despite US Peace Envoy, George Mitchell’s efforts.
As shown in ‘Solving the Arab-Israeli Conflict’, there is explicit and compelling evidence to show that both Arab and Jewish religious leaders have misinterpreted Mohammed’s and Moses’ final command respectively. Hence, the religious basis for the conflict can be easily resolved.
Regards,
Grenville
Hi Mr.Grenville;
Nice to hear from you and I appreciate your views.I agree the complex problem or controversy presented between Arabs and Israel
is mind-boggling and really beyond our league.
I suggest that since they are brothers,first stop hostility,stop shooting ,stop planning terroristic schemes.Then ,second work on economic cooperation and trade and exchange of goods and services.Let there be a ceasefire.Let the ordinary lives of their citizens go on to raise their family .Live and let live. I know thousands also wish on what I wish. But I believe God will solve these controversy as He said in Isaiah,Jeremiah,Ezekiel,Daniel and the Revelation. He will as He promised.God bless of you .
Hi Estipona:
Thank you for your interest in this subject. While your way forward is quite reasonable, recent Arab-Israeli history does not provide us with much encouragement that such a reasonable and logical approach will succeed. We must not make the mistake that has been consistently made for the past 60 years, that of simply ignoring the underlying religious problems.
If Muslims are forced to recognize Israel’s right to exist in the region, then many Muslims believe that they are actually being told to either intentionally violate Mohammed’s command, and thereby risk eternal damnation in exchange for a temporary and fragile regional peace, or to negotiate with Israel in bad faith, and patiently wait for the opportunity to carry out Mohammed’s final command.
If Jews are forced to return the Gaza and West Bank, then many Jews believe that they are actually being told to either deliberately violate God’s command to possess the land, and thereby invite the consequences of disobedience, or to negotiate with the Arab representatives in bad faith, and patiently wait for the opportunity to fully occupy the areas within the boundaries that were defined by God.
We cannot pretend that these religious issues do not exist. Egypt’s President, Anwar Sadat, was the first of Israel’s neighbors to recognize Israel’s right to exist on the peninsula and he was assassinated within 2 years of signing the treaty. Israel’s Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, signed the Oslo Accords in 1993, which gave the Palestinian Authority control over the West Bank and Gaza areas in exchange for peace. He was also assassinated within 2 years of signing the agreement. The negotiated peace has not yet been realized.
It is instructive to note that as US peace envoy, George Mitchell left Israel (24 Jan 2010), after proposing a similarly reasonable approach, Israel’s Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu planted trees in the West Bank settlement. The US continues to ignore the religious issues which are steering both sides into annihilation, but the religious issues will not go away by simply hoping that they will – which has been the approach of at least the past 40 years.
Regards,
Grenville
Mi Mr.Grenville;
You are right,the root cause of this conflict is religous belief. The Muslims believe that they have the mandate from God to possess the land,while the Jews believe that they have the same mandate or command to possess the same land. I believe that both sides will not give-in on anything less. To convince the majority of Muslim to give in to Jews or majority of Jews will givein to Muslim it is an uphill climb for they see each other as an enemy.
But as it is written in Isaiah,this controversy can be resolve by God Himself. Whom God will side,the Muslims or the Israelites?
For awhile,they should tone down rhetorics and threats and acts of terrorism.Let them live and let live. Keep the peace.Spend money on food,shelter,medicines,education and services not on bullets and rockets. Remember Death and Destruction have unsatiable appetite.
Hi Estipona:
You have correctly defined the complex issue. Both Jews and Muslims believe that their respective prophet (Moses and Mohammed) was instructed by God to command them to occupy the land of Israel.
One way forward is to simply ignore this religious conundrum and ask both sides to live in peace. That approach has failed over the past 60 years, principally because the people are aware of their Prophet’s commands. This reveals two fundamental problems.
1. How can Israel allow Muslim Palestinians to occupy part of their (Israel’s) God-given inheritance, without violating God’s command to occupy the land? Or more explicitly: How can Jewish Rabbis confidently teach Jews that Palestinians have a right to live in peace and prosperity, and to govern themselves in Gaza and the West Bank, while keeping their consciences clear by being convinced that they are not violating God’s commands?
2. How can Muslims accept Israel’s right to exist in peace on the peninsula, without violating Mohammed’s final command? Or more explicitly: How can Islamic Sheikhs confidently teach Muslims that Israel has a right to live in peace and prosperity on the peninsula, while keeping their consciences clear by being convinced that they are not violating Mohammed’s final command?
This is the problem that the book solves with adequate supporting evidence. It is the culmination of 30 years of research and can be conveniently obtained from Amazon.com and Amazon Kindle, or from your local library.
Best regards,
Grenville
Hi Dr J:
There is sufficient evidence of the recent (post 1948) historical events to allow persons on both sides of the issue to discuss their differences of opinion rationally – if only they were willing to do so.
What inhibits a rational discussion among those in the Middle East appears to be the religious issues. Until they are resolved, the past 60 years have shown us the unlikelihood of a rational discussion between those of differing interpretations.
I believe that the resolution of the critical religious issues presented in ‘Solving the Arab-Israeli Conflict’ should be acceptable to all sides, which should facilitate the required and long delayed rational discussion.
Regards,
Grenville
Hi Mr.Grenville;
As I understand this is the great controversy that is written in the book of Isaiah,Jeremiah and other prophecy books.
In the perspective of the Muslims,too many blood had been spilled for this conflict or controversy.They won’t settle anything less than the destruction of Israel.Muslim might accept peace agreement only as a means to put down the guard of Israel ,then they will destroy them in due time.In the perspective of Israel,they will do anything to survive and whatever cost even to the point of using nuclear weapons ,if it the last recourse. Israel knows they are outnumbered and surrounded.
I hope your book will shed light and open the minds of both sides.But we don’t know how they will accept it.If even the majority will accept it, somebody or group of people will oppose it. The dynamics is complex and the reaction might be explosive or it might be peaceful.
I read a part of the bible,God will save Israel and will not leave nor forsake them. Through great signs ,wonders and miracles ,God will execute His promise. However ,in koran the Muslims also believes that Allah will kept His promise.
I hope that in my lifetime,I will witness that event.God bless you and your family.
Hi Estipona:
Thank you for all of your comments.
I am not so sure that Isaiah and Jeremiah are referring to Muslims and Islam in their prophecies. Revelation appears to suggest that God will help Israel; however, Muslims do not appear to be identified as the enemy. If you can identify any verse remotely suggesting this, then please present it for scrutiny.
Best regards.
“all the rituals of Muslim are taken from Jews “, I think this is not correct!. Like you all said, if they both came from one father, naturally they will have similarities in rituals. In many instances, these rituals is the only correct thing to do and a common sense to civility!
As to Pr. Muhhamd (PBAH), I do not know of any written request to cleanse the Arab peninsula from the Jews. The Jews were minority in the Arab peninsula among 95% Arab inhabitants. At the time, naturally to the new religion, they presented a danger and all left or died in clashes.
Contrary to this, Jews thrived after that in the Islamic state. Be it in Cairo, Marrakesh, or Baghdad…!.
The Jews became a problem to Arabs and Muslims …ONLY AFTER THE CREATION OF THE ISRAELI STATE……..
Hi Mohamed:
Please be advised that there is compelling evidence that Mohammed wanted only one religion to be practiced in the Arabian Peninsula area. Some of the evidence is presented here.
1. Ibn Ishaq’s Biography of Mohammed – quoting Mohammed
“Let not two religions be left in the Arabian Peninsula.” (Ibn Ishaq. The Life of Muhammad, p.689)
2. Hadith Malik Muwatta – quoting Mohammed
“Two religions shall not co-exist in the Arabian Peninsula.” (Translation of Malik’s Muwatta, Book 45: Number 45.5.18)
3. Hadith Sahih Bukhari
Then the Prophet ordered them to do three things saying, ‘Turn out all the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, show respect to all foreign delegates by giving them gifts as I used to do.’ The sub-narrator added, ‘The third order was something beneficial which either Ibn ‘Abbas did not mention or he mentioned but I forgot.'(Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 393: also Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288, and Volume 5, Book 59, Number 716)
4. Umar expells the Jews
Mohammed’s successor Umar (after Abu Bakr) later expelled the Jews from the region.
Then he got up and addressed those present saying that the apostle had arranged with the Jews of Khaybar that we could expel them if we wished … And he did expel them. (Ibn Ishaq. The Life of Muhammad, p.525)
The details, and additional evidence, is provided in “Solving the Arab-Israeli Conflict”. All of this happened well over 1,000 years before Israel became a nation.
Regards,
Grenville
The nation of Israel was established since bronze age whereas the religion of Islam was founded more 700 years ago. The rituals of washing before praying and worship was practiced by Israel since bronze age.Israel and Jerusalem at that time was the center pilgrimage and worship in the whole asia minor and part of north africa.As far as Ethiopia and modern Libya,these pilgrims bring their offerings and blood sacrifice for the atonement of their sins.This practice was used by Muslim as they pay pilgrimage to Mecca and other Cities up to this time.Their is nothing wrong to point out historical facts that happened long ago.We can’t change it. In my country,we had a varied and unique cultures that shape our nation and our faith. We had the culture of Indonesians, Malays, Indians, Buddhist, Muslim,Spanish and Americans.Our language is unique,we had a mixture that in every 5 kilometers or village had different dialect.We accept who we are and not be embarrass of our culture .We fought wars against every invader in our country but we don’t despise on what part of their culture imparted in us.We found out that part of their culture is actually a part of who we are. Simply Israel and Arab countries have conflict right now,you want to ignore a part of that history, your history.You are blood brothers,You ought to love and accept each other. Our country and your country and country of Israel are friends.We are Asian but you have the same blood and history with Israel. Simply you have different faith from them,it is a reason to wage war with them. It is not reasonable ,for there are no reasons to fight each other.You can spare some land for them to exist ,in fact your land is hundred times larger than them . If our country accept the agreement in Paris 1897,it was forced on us.But we learn to live with it and accept the friendship of our former enemies.Now we are the best of friends.,with the US,with Japan,with Spain and other countries.
Our country chose to seek common goals and points of agreement,from that point we establish diplomatic and economic relationships. But your people and the people of Israel have a lot in common,more points to agree and to cooperate with each other.From the land to faith ,you have a lot in common.Why you and Israel cannot live peacefully from each other? Remember you and Israel are brothers and sisters.
Hi Mr.Grenville;
I really admire your dedication and passion on putting this book for the sake of peace in the middle east. How many days and nights you spent just to write this book. You are an extra ordinary man.Keep up your work. God bless you and your family.
Hi Estipona:
The book is the culmination of 30 years of research. It was written in six months. It is actualy my second book, the first being “Brothers Kept Apart” which provides compeling evidence to prove that Christians and Muslims are brothers who have been kept apart.
Regards,
Grenville
Hi Grenville
You refer some quote as Muhammed (pbuh) said. Your reference is one sided. After migration from Mecca to Medina, Muhammed (pbuh) made a treaty with Jews lived in Medina to help each other at the time of crisis. When Quraiesh of Mecca attacked Medina, then those jews did not act as per accord and they joined with Quraiesh of Mecca to eliminate new muslims from Medina. You never give light on this matter.
Hi Firoz:
Let us put Mohammed’s relationship with the Jews in context. Mohammed would have had much contact with the Jews during his lifetime. Mohammed started preaching at the age of 40, and for the next 9 years, his message was similar to that of the Old Testament Prophets and to Jesus. There was significant opposition to Mohammed’s message, and many of his followers were persecuted. However, his wife and uncle were influential, and his uncle protected him.
After 9 years of preaching a non-violent message of loving God and neighbour, his wife and uncle died. Having no protector, he left Mecca in search of a protector, but found none. Eventually, the Arabs and Jews of Medina invited him to be their judge, and promised to protect him. Thus Mohammed and his followers moved to Medina.
Mohammed message changed from one of non-violence, to permission to defend one-self, and eventually to execute God’s judgment on the surrounding nations. During an early defensive battle, the Jews in Medina did not fight with Mohammed, so he killed some and expelled others. During his advance, Mohammed attached Jewish forts and expelled their inhabitants. However, he later allowed them to remain if they paid a tax of 50% of their produce – which many did.
As Mohammed was dying, he gave the command that only one religion should remain on the peninsula. Umar, one of Mohammed’s successors, eventually expelled the remaining Jews from the Arabian region during his reign.
So, while the reference may appear to be one-sided, it is none-the-less correct, since we are discussing Mohammed’s final command, which was towards the end of his life.
Regards,
Grenville
Hi Grenvile, you said, ” Mohammed wanted only one religion to be practiced in the Arabian Peninsula “, so what !, Jesus wanted only one religion in the world!, and so did Moses, …..
expelling the Jews was not just done in the Arabian Peninsula, they were expelled from everywhere they went, they were expelled along with Muslims from Spain, and they were expelled from various parts of Europe during WWII.
Please do not base facts on worldly often events. This world goes around, focus on the future and leave the past, ……”come out of the Desert!”.
The problem with religious Jews is that they do not want to forget the past, every race on earth had a dark period, but life goes on…..
Hi Mohammed:
In response:
1. Please note that Jesus never said that there should be only one religion in the world. Rather, He promoted the idea that there is only one God who created all people, and our responsibility is to love God and each other. Jesus invites every Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc, to cultivate a relationship with God, and serve each other. Please note that you can do this and remain true to the teachings of the Qur’an.
2. The Jews were not expelled from everywhere they went. They certainly were not expelled from Israel by Mohammed or his followers.
3. We can ‘leave the past’ if we do not allow the past to sabotage our future. The unresolved religious issues of the past are preventing good-faith peace discussions, principally because those brokering such discussions are completely ignoring these religious issues.
4. The problem with religious Jews is the same problem with religious Christians and religious Muslims. They place their man-made religious traditions above the clear teachings of God as revealed in their religious texts.
Old Testament : “Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh?” (Isaiah 58:6–7)
Gospel : “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:36–40)
Qur’an : It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing. (2:177)
Regards,
Grenville
Hi Mr.Grenville;
I am totally agree with you.You found the right verses that to believe and obey in God’s teachings rather on the traditions of man.
Hi Estipona:
Man made religious traditions are very useful. However, they can become a heavy, dangerous and unnecessary burden on Jews, Christians and Muslims when they conflict with their respective scriptures.
Jesus was most angry with the religious leaders of His day for promoting man-made religious traditions that conflict with their scriptures.
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?” He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘ This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.” He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. … making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.” (Mark 7:5-9, 13)
Regards,
Grenville
Hi Grenville, thanks for your research and hard work.
Our single glob suffers from multi conflicts. I leave in a tolerant cultural set up, where most of us have learnt to respect each other’s religious faiths and cultural differences and co-exist having different religious and traditional beliefs. However, such set up does not guarantee conflict-less society. The same is with countries having one religion.
You are right, man made religious traditions have become burdensome and dangerous. Because we can see that religions world wide have failed to unite humanity. Contrary, it is the most dangerous phenomenon of division. Can any existing so called religion unite global community? I think not. Religions have failed and one humanity needs one mediator to be united to one God.
Please give me some insights from your research.
Hi Parimel:
Let me recommend my first book, “Brothers Kept Apart”, which I believe you will find al of the details that you need. It is the culmination of 30 years of study, and I stake my 20 year professional career on the integrity of the research. You can read part of it on the links of http://www.BrothersKeptApart.com
Regards,
Grenville
Thanks Granville.
But what we are facing in this case is new imperialism Nazi Zionist occupation.
Jews pretend that the land given to them by God, but God is also the God of the Palestinians, Jews crimes in Palestine overcomes all possibilities of solving a conflict, accordingly more extremist from the Moslem’s side became to power
religious bigotry has been the root cause of all evils and politicians fan these flames for their power base and existence. whether god made man or he was evolved he is an intelligent being knowing fully well what is to be human or monster. we are first humans and need to respect human beings whoever and wherever they are. love god and your neighbour as u love yourself. most often this commandment is forgotten.
Hi Xavier:
Well, too often we fail to ask the pertinent question – who is my neighbour? Jesus showed that it is anyone who is need that we are in a position to help. May we do likewise.
Regards,
Grenville
Hi Sami:
The god worship by muslims are not related nor
it shows the same God of Israel.The God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob forbids to worship sacred stone(as what they do in Meccah),forbids killing of innocent women and children but teaches love and compassion and even giving one’s life for the love of others.
Religious teachings remains on the pages, may not be because of human error or forgetfulness. Rather a deleberate choice that springs from the corrupt attitude. Religions, now, have nothing to do with God. It has reached far…far away from God to God’s messangers. I think that’s why it devides. History is the proof that no relegion has stoped man killing each other and destroying nature. Inward transformation is needed.
The problem comes from the tyrants regimes and dictatorships in the Arab world.
They have to create an external enemy to make their opression to their own people justified.
Lack of learning, illiteracy, being in the dark makes the Arabs unwilling to agree to be peaceful. Most of the Arab states are Police states and they are governed by non elected heads with no accountability of care for their own people.
What they need is another ‘The Liberation of Arabia Act’ sismilar to that which helped topple Saddam Hussain and create democracies and freedom , the rule of law and human rights.
This talk about religious differences is nonesense – most people love each other or respect each other because thet are different from each other.
The Arabs in Israel have higher standard of education than their counter parts in the rest of Arabia on average.
It will be great to see the Israeli technology, high tech, agriculture and medicine being sold in the Arab world and that the energy need of Israel is satisfied so as to help the USA commitments to it.
What we need is open trade between the Arab people and the Israeli people being jews, chrstians and Muslims or other minority group.
Separating religions from the State will be a first step.
Kind regards
انا عزات برشا اكره ريال
ءءء
Hi Estipona:
I think that you need to read Brothers Kept Apart, which contains compelling evidence to show that the Bible and the Qur’an instruct their readers to worship the same God.
Regards
Grenville
Hi Hameed:
Something is preventing good faith negotiations. What is it?
Something is making highly educated people choose to become suicide agents. What is it?
Perhaps you need to read the entire book and then let us discuss the matter. You should be able to find a copy in your local library.
Regards,
Grenville
In John 14:6,Lord Jesus says “I am the Way,the Truth and the Life,no one comes to the Father except through Me. “. In Quran Jesus is only a prophet not the Saviour.
In the Gospel ,if you deny that Lord Jesus as a Son of God and Savior,this is the spirit of Anti-Christ.Daily they recite that God doesn’t a Son.In book of John,Jesus said if you do not received Lord Jesus as the Son and redeemer,you do not received the Father for the Son is one with the Father.
Lord Jesus command all believers to worship God in spirit and in truth but not to bow down on a piece of stone nor face to west just to worship. When sons of Aaron ,offer fire not specified by God,they were killed by fire of God.God is specific on the way a believer must worship,that is in spirit and in truth. But th way the muslim worship is still patterned in the old covenant.
Muslim denies that Lord Jesus resurrected and seated at the right hand of the Father. Since the resurrection of Lord Jesus Christ up to His Second Coming is the period of the Lord’s favor,grace and mercy. If we confess by our mouth with faith aand accept Him as our Lord and Savior,you will be saved.
If you compare the rituals of Muslim and Jews,they are similar.For the Muslim pattern their rituals from the Jews.But if you compare the way how the Christian worship God is different,more in the faith and spirit not on outward rituals.
In a way,you are right Jews religion and Muslim religion is very similar in form and rituals. But the Muslim missed a lot in the old covenant,the promised of salvation ,the promise of new heaven and new earth,the promise of forgiveness of sins,the promise of a new and everlasting life,the promise of God’s favor of mercy and grace ,promise that God will offer a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins and cleansing of iniquities ,the promise of peace and harmony,the promise of destroying the kingdom of Satan.These promises were fulfilled in the new covenant in the blood of God’s Lamb.His son.
The things in the old covenant are just a shadows of things to come,a promise that must be fulfilled,that the promises are fulfilled in the new covenant. In the new covenant, race, language,creed are not the barrier to accept God’s covenant in the blood of the Lamb.
Hi Estipona:
You raised many points, all of which are adequately addressed in Brothers Kept Apart. However, let me respond to two of your concerns, lest others be misled.
1. Jesus is the Messiah
Christians and Muslims, who comprise more than half of the population on this planet, are the only two religious groups whose principal texts acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah.
When the angels said: O Mary! Lo! God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). (3:45)
2. Ishmaelites worshipping stones.
Both the Bible and the Qur’an forbid this practice. However, it was practiced by both Israelites and Ismaelites in the past. Mohammed’s biographer, Ibn Ishaq records how the practice developed.
Amr … was the first to change the religion of Ishmael, to set up idols … They say that the beginning of stone worship among the sons of Ishmael was when Mecca became too small for them, and they wanted more room in the country. Everyone who left the town, took with him a stone from the sacred area to do honor to it. … This led them to worship what stones they pleased … Thus as generations passed, they forgot their primitive faith and adopted another religion for that of Abraham and Ishmael.
However, neither Jews, Christians nor Muslims worship stones today.
Again, I strongly recommend that you read Brothers Kept Apart, which contains compelling evidence to show that if Christians followed the Bible and Muslims followed the Qur’an, then there would be no theological differences between them, only cultural.
Regards,
Grenville
This is totally nonsense. Conflict in history is all due to bunch of crazes dominating other bunch of humans. Nazi Germans for example in Europe. Zionists in the Middle East. People creates and uses religion/ideology to help attain their goals. The Zionists first opted to go Uguanda in Africa using the holocaust before deciding for Palestine. Only then they used religion to kind of justify their occupation. Again, the conflict is not religious-based but it’s a matter of occupation, racism and apartheid.
Oh, yes. perhaps I should point out. I used to in Israel and, ironically, now live in Islamically conservative Kuwait.
Have you read Jill Hamilton’s ‘God, Guns and Israel’?
The issue is not religious differences, but justice differences. The “Zionists” are today’s “Nazis”. “Gaza” is today’s “Warsaw Ghetto”. Jews and Moslems lived harmoniously together for centuries while at the same time Jews were being expelled from Europe, and seeking sanctuary in Islamic Lands by the thousands. Of course where there is no justice, and no hope, some people turn to religion for mental escape. This lack of justice has existed since the British Balfour Declaration in the early twentieth century… It was not the Moslems who expelled or exterminated the Jews. If there is to be a Jewish homeland, let those who committed these horrendous crimes pay the price. Let Rome or Berlin be the Jewish homeland… or even London- given the British support for Lord Balfour. The Palestinians are the innocents in all of this. [For the record, I am an atheist, so I have no religious partialities…].
Hi John:
I have not read Jill’s book. I will investigate it.
Regards,
Grenville
Hi O Stone:
You have not explained why it is “total nonsense”. Simply stating such does not make it so. Let us discuss the matter. I provided compelling evidence to support what I have written. What specificallly do you disagree with?
Regards,
Grenville
We have the Palestinian people have suffered so much from the barbaric practices of the Jews, there is no house here but Lübbe prisoner or a martyr or wounded or may not be the house has basically been demolished.
To the point where I feel that the animals live better than us, and there are those who demand their rights.
Hi Htlr:
We agree that a solution must be found. The proposed strategy is to resolve the principal obstacles preventing both sides from negotiating a good-faith solution.
Regards,
Grenville
I read with interest the comments posted. Utube and internet provides an outlet for hate posts for pro and anti israel/palestinian conflict under the guise of “free speech”. Most videos posted on sites fabricate facts, incite violence and hate and slander. What bothers me is that todays individuals believe anything that is dished up to them from biased media and from mostly very one-sided articles. It is too easy to hate without really understanding the full picture and the facts behind the conflict. Minds are made up on rumors, half-truths, slander and incitement on both sides.
Both sides are sick and tired of the killing – the ordinary man in the street is not interested in the religious aspect – we all just want peace, security and respect for all. Amen. Shalom and Salaam
Hi Elana:
While “the ordinary man in the street” may not be interested in the “religious aspect”, it does influence him.
Most Jews in Israel attend or know someone who regularly attends the syangogue and receives instruction from a Rabbi. Most Mulslims attend a mosque or are taught by an imam. Therefore both are influenced by the “religious aspect”. Once the religious aspect has been solved, an effective solution to the killing can be implemented.
Regards,
Grenville
I am not giving a solution, also i don`t know so much about this issue like you ,great people of our world………..
i want to say only please think about our upcoming generation. Innocent people are dying just only because of some freaky land issues.
my nation “INDIA” is also suffering from kashmir issue and i promise you all people that there will not be any solution to this until we think about innocent people seriously.
Actually both religion and science have destroyed this world.
Hi Vivek:
Those with active consciences normally consider the innocent during conflicts. The problem is with those who appear to have lost their consciences, and murder the innocent without hesitation.
I do not think that religion and science have a negative impact; but rather the use of religion to control people, and the use of technology to harm people.
Regards,
Grenville
Mr.Grenville;
I agree that there are a lot in common between Jew and Islam.These common grounds might help defuse if not eliminate the conflict. But these things that bind them were lost and marred by bloodbath,hatred and vengeance and destruction . It started small and snowballed into full blown conflict.Now,majority on both sides no longer see the common things that bind them,what they see is the chance to get even with more blood and complete destruction.
I share to you this true story here in the Philippines. An on-going bloodshed between two warring families.The rule is to kill all adult males on both sides.No women nor children are included in the clan war.But as I asked questions why they are killing each other. Some old folks who knew these two families,the war started with land dispute.These two families are actually related with each other.
The conflict start when the older brother get the lion share of the inheritance from their parents.The younger get the smaller portion.The parents did not execute a will to whom these properties and land will be given.In the confrontation ,the younger brother killed the older brother.The other siblings was divided into two warring camps. In retaliation,the son of the older brother killed the his uncle(younger brother). These confrontation escalated into a clan war.These clan war started four generations ago and still going on today.Nobody wants to file in court to settle the disputes but scores were settled with guns .
These also happened between Jews and Arabs,they are brothers but that affiinity was marred and lost due to conflict.Common things that binds them were covered by violence,pride,vengeance,hatred and distrust.
I propose forgiveness,restituition and compassion and all of these must start with repentance,humility and love. Unconditional love that covers all sins. There is an only way,the Way of Lord Jesus Christ. It may sounds weird on your ears,but it really works and proven effective.
Hi Estipona:
Being reconciled to God, through the sacrifice of Jesus the Messiah, gives us a common heavenly Father. I agree with you that this is the proven and most effective method of reconciling people to each other, since they are adopted into the same spiritual family.
However, please note that the situation that you described in the Philippines is not how the conflict in the Middle East developed. It developed as a result of the unwillingness of Christian and Jewish religious leaders to honestly examine Mohammed’s claims or teachings while he was alive.
For the first 9 years of Mohammed’s preaching, his message was similar to that of Jesus, the Old Testament Prophets, and the New Testament Apostles. His message was also highly offensive to the Arabs, who wanted to kill him. I have detailed this history, and provided an honest critical examination of Mohammed’s teachings in ‘Brothers Kept Apart’.
The current conflict is due to atrocities on both sides. However, what prevents good-faith negotiations of a solution are the final commands of Moses and Mohammed, which have been misunderstood.
Regards,
Grenville
هلووو تحياتي لجميع
Mr.Salaam;
Please use a language that all of us reading this blog can easily understand. Your comments will count to nothing.
رااتايسنت تنبيتن يىرلا يونا يىىرن ىسيمنىنميبى منيىموبةيمنةيبلنمىتىلتنبمي يمكس يبةومةلنيمبىاتينمبىيبنمبينمىبىؤمنريبمنبنييب
Mr.Grenville;
I came across an interview of Arie Lova Eliav entitled ” We acted as they would have to us”by Arieh O’Sullivan in the Spotlight published in Jerusalem Post dated June 2,2010.. It gives us a slice of sentiment or situation after the 1948 war between arabs and jews. A personal view of a man who played some role in the formation of state if Israel. Telling us why they did those decisions and the way they see it at that time differs on what we see it this time.
I agree with him . and I lamented on how the arabs on that time did not do anything to alleviate or improved their lot in contrast on what Israel did on their lot that there is a big difference on the standard of living between them. Anyway ,what is done is done .
In the light on what happened on gaza flotilla ,things will unravel quite fast and things will gone out of control. As I see it,new conflict is coming up. And it will be bloodier and destructive than 2006 lebanon and 2010 cast lead combined. Hamas and arabs will capitalized every single drop of blood spilled and they will escalate this real bad.
Regards to your family.
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An excellent post, Mr. Grenville. However, I think more than Gaza and the West Bank, Jerusalem’s status is a greater hurdle to leap. Everyone has a claim to it and no one is willing to budge. The solution to me seems to be to make it an open city but that’s just crazy practicality talking.
I always enjoy erudite perspectives. Thank you for sharing yours. Ma’asalama.
Hi Saladin:
I agree that Jerusalem is a contentious issue. The Jews, Christians, and Muslims are emotionally attached to it for justifiable reasons. However, to my knowledge, neither group is making an exclusive claim for Jerusalem.
The problem arises when one group wishes to damage the ‘sacred’ sites of one of the others. Due to the emotional attachments of these sites, the damage is referred to a desecration, and offended adherents feel obligated to respond meaningfully.
For example:
1) The Persians defeated the Romans and conquered Jerusalem in 614 AD. They took the cross upon which Jesus was crucified as a trophy, burnt the Church of the Resurrection (also known as the Church of the Holy Sepulture) where Jesus’ tomb was located, and killed at least 66,509 Christians. In retaliation, the Roman Emperor Heraclius destroyed the Zoroastrian fire temple (the most sacred Zoroastrian religious site), defeated the Persians, and recovered the cross.
2) The Islamic army invaded southern Italy in 831 AD, plundered St Peter’s and St Paul’s Basilicas in 846 AD, and occupied southern Italy c.900 AD. The Islamic Caliph then ordered the destruction of both the Church of the Holy Sepulture in Jerusalem and Jesus’ empty tomb in 1009 AD. Pope Urban II would later summon the first Crusade to expel the Islamic Empire out of Europe and retake Jerusalem.
Currently, all sides appear to respect the other’s religious sites. However, there is a simmering distrust that is based on Moses’ and Mohammed’s final commands. If this distrust is effectively resolved, it would allow each side to discuss an equitable solution in good faith.
Regards,
Grenville
Grenville,
I have read your 1st book and found it great reading and historical enlightening and I make sure to get a copy of this new edition as the topic is of much interest to me.
Can you give us a brief history on the exile of the jews from Israel and return after the world war, what happen between that period? I have had arguments with people who say that jews of today have no connection with the jews of the past and therefore they have no right to “re-claim” land in Israel. For example, someone earlier in these posts said the problems stated when the Israel-state was ‘created’ but isnt the Israel we read of in the bible the israel of today, therefore was Israel always a Nation/State? Further, are the Arabs referred to in the Old Testament who the Israel had fought wars with the same Arabs of today? Was differences in religion the basis for war then between these two nations?
Hi ROA:
Brief History
The Jews were expelled from Jerusalem by the Romans. They were dispersed throughout the Roman empire and suffered waves of persecution until they returned to Israel after the second World War. There were several reasons for their persecution, including the following.
1. ‘Christian’ religious leaders who incited uneducated masses to kill them for killing Christ.
2. Community leaders who accused them if some disaster occurred, like the Black Plague.
3. Business leaders who were jealous because of their business management practices and profit.
4. Political leaders who expelled them because the Jews used to lend money – as bankers, and those in debt do not like their creditors.
Jews of Today
The Jews sustain their community with their traditions. Once the traditions are maintained, then the Jews of today are well connected to the Jews of the past.
Israel of Today
The boundaries of the state of Israel were defined by God in the Bible. The borders of modern day Israel are very similar to those of the past. This is covered in the book.
Arabs
It is possible that some of the Arabs are descendents of some of the nations whom Joshua was commanded to drive out, but who God allowed to remain when Joshua and the Israelites disobeyed.
Basis for War
The basis for the war was that the people had practiced corrupting behavior for centuries, and God’s patience with them had run out.
Regards,
Walter
The Bible is full of similar stories. I want to point out one similar story in particular. In the Book of Daniel is the prophesy of 911. You can find it in the story about Nebuchadnezzar’s dream where the tree is chopped down. The Tree in this dream is a metaphor for a skyscraper. The Tree is also a symbol for the economy the same as the Twin Towers were. When the Tree, Twin Towers fell so did the economy. Both stories take place in Iraq. Nebuchadnezzar in the future is Saddam Hussein. Both Neb and Saddam loose their Kingdoms when the Tree, Twin Towers fall. Both men go into exile and suffer a period of madness following the fall of the skyscraper (Tree). Saddam looked like a creature with hair of feathers and nails like claws when the US forces pulled him out of his hole in the ground as did Neb. Both men were restored, brought back to the kingdom. The writing on the wall was for the sons of Neb and Saddam. The sons of both Kings were killed by invading forces.
In summary the Prophesy written in the book of Daniel is about 911. There was no possible way to have foreseen this until after the events transpired. This is the definitive interpretation.
Why is God behind the 911 attacks? The solution to the middle east crisis is written in The Book of Genesis. Here God talks about Deception and War. Now you don’t see it in Genesis because just like in the Book of Daniel you can’t interpert it either. God is telling all of you that you are wrong and that you have all been deceived. Not until everyone can admit that they are wrong then peace will begin. However God backs up the Jews. God says that the Jews are right and the rest of you are wrong.
I will give you a few clues. There is a Tree in The Book of Genesis. And there is fruit on this tree that God says not to eat. The fruit is poison. WE also know that Jesus was nailed to a tree. So, “The Tree Bears Jesus”. Jesus is the produce from the Bible. Books are made from Trees and they also contain Knowledge. Trees don’t grow knowledge do they. So a tree is also a metaphor for a book (Bible). The Serpent says to Eve, “Take in the fruit (Jesus) and you positively will not die. Does that sound familiar to you? Who says believe in Jesus and you positively will not die?
God told all of you in the very beginning that Jesus is poison. So what about the Muslims. God says that the Whore of Babylon’s name is “Madamm Ho”. So that means if your not a Jew or an Atheist, most of you worship the Beast or the Whore. And there you have it, your all wrong about everything because most all of you have been decieved by Satan or the Whore. The Jews are right, they never were deceived because they listened to God.
Now I want everyone to listen to God. Who did he say that Israel belongs to?
Hi Melvin:
Give me a little time to study your e-mail before I respond.
Regards,
Grenville